红石 等级：02同志 经验：206 帖子：53 注册：2006/1/27 |
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采访尼泊尔共产党（毛主义）高级领导人巴塔拉依（四）
翻译:红石
Q. Ambassadors of some powerful countries have said that if the Maoists join an interim government without decommissioning their army, then the interim government formed in this way will not get international acknowledgement and support. What do you say?
问：一些强国的大使说过，如果毛主义者没有解散他们的军队就参加临时政府，那么以这种方式建立的临时政府将不会得到国际承认和支持。您怎么看？
Bhattarai: This is not based on facts. World history of conflict resolution shows that nowhere in the world- from South Africa to, Guatemala of Latin America to East Timor to Ireland- have the rebels given up arms before the final step of the conflict resolution process. People like Moriarty who are saying so have forgotten world history. We shouldn't be disillusioned by such statements.
巴塔拉依：这不符合事实。解决冲突的世界历史证明，从南非到拉丁美洲的危地马拉，再到东帝汶和爱尔兰， 世界上没有一个地方在解决冲突进程的最后一步以前，造反者会放下武器。象Moriarty说那种话的人已经忘记了世界历史。我们应该对这种言论保持清醒头脑。
Q. You don't want permanent management of your arms before the constituent assembly elections. This means you are keeping the option to go back to war open until the elections?
问：你们不想使你们的军队在制宪会议选举前受到永久的管理。这意味着你们一直准备着在选举前回到战争状态。
Bhattarai: What about the arms of the royal army that have been time and again used against democracy since 1960? It's clear that the royal army's weapons are not under the government's control. Recently the generals went to the palace to greet the king and fired cannons to celebrate his birthday against the government's directive. This clearly shows the royal army, whose name has been changed, is not under government control. Therefore, the real danger is from the royal army.
巴塔拉依：从1960年以来，尼泊尔王军不是一直被用来镇压民主吗？要清楚，尼泊尔王军的武器并不受政府的控制。最近，一些将军们违背政府指令到王宫参见国王并放礼炮给他过生日。这说明王军虽然名称变了，却并不受政府控制。因此，真正的危险来自于王军。
Q. You participated in the past peace talks also. How much hopeful are you of the success of the peace process this time?
您也参加过过去的和谈。您认为这次和平进程成功的希望有多大？
Bhattarai: The situation is different now. This time we and the SPA jointly launched the movement based on the 12-point understanding. In this way, we are friendly forces of the movement. The monarchy is much weaker now as compared to the past. If the unity among the seven parties, our party and the civil society is strengthened, we can defeat the monarchy and ensure the establishment of a democratic republic and peace in the country. Therefore, we are much hopeful of the success of the peace process this time. But we are not completely assured. The SPA leadership will have to play a progressive role for the success of the peace process.
巴塔拉依：现在情况不同了。这次我们和七党联盟在12点协议的基础上共同发动了人民运动。在这方面，我们是运动中的友好力量。现在皇室的力量比以前弱多了。如果七党联盟，我们党和国民社团的联合得到加强，我们就能击败国王并确保建立民主共和国以及国家和平。因此，我们非常希望这次和谈能成功。但是我们不能完全保证。七党联盟领导人必须为和平进程的胜利发挥进步的作用。
From our side, we will do all we can to make the peace process successful. Because we really want the restructuring of the state and all problems related to caste, region and gender resolved. We want peace. We are committed and will try to establish peace in the country until the end. But if some international powers intervene and do not let this happen, people will rise up again. But, as our chairman has also said, we won't return to the jungle. We will lead the rebellion from here in Kathmandu.
从我们方面，我们会尽最大努力使和谈成功。因为我们真的想重建国家并解决与种姓、地区和性别有关的一切问题。我们想要和平。我们会努力在国内建立和平而坚持到最后。但是，如果一些国际力量干涉而不让这个理想实现，那么人民会再次起义。但是，就象我们的主席讲的，我们不会再回到丛林。我们将在加德满都这里领导起义。
Q. You won't return to war?
你们不会回到战争，是吗？
Bhattarai: Surely not. The entire Nepali people want peace and progressive change in the country. Then how can we want war? The people should rise up against and defeat those who want war. We will help the people in that rebellion.
巴塔拉依：当然不会。全体尼泊尔人民想要和平以及国家的进步转变。那么我们怎会要战争呢？人民会起来反对和击败那些想要战争的人。我们会帮助人民起义。
Q. Your party quite often talks about the restructuring of the state. How do you plan to restructure the state? How different will it be from the existing political separation of the country into five development regions, 14 zones and 75 districts?
你们党经常谈到重建国家。你们计划怎样重建国家？那同当前的把行政区分为5个发展地区，14个专区和75个地区有什么不同吗？
Bhattarai: These development regions, zones and districts are just the revenue collection units of the old regime. These administrative units which they have made to maintain the so-called law and order are very much centralized and represent a unitary state. This did not solve the problems of the people. We should change this unitary state system into a federal state system based on regional autonomy. This can be done based on the nine different autonomous regions which we have formed- Seti, Mahakali, Karnali, Magarat, Tamuwan, Newa, Tamang, Kirant and Madhes autonomous regions. This is the restructuring of the state we have been talking about.
巴塔拉依：这些发展地区、专区和地区仅仅是旧政权的税收单位。这些他们用来维持所谓的法律和秩序的行政单位太集中了，反映了单一的国体。这不能解决人民的问题。我们将把这种单一国家变为在地区自治基础上的联邦国家。这将是我们已经建立的9个不同的自治区-Seti, Mahakali, Karnali, Magarat, Tamuwan, Newa, Tamang, Kirant 和 Madhes自治区。这就是我们谈到的国家重建。
Q. Does the SPA agree with this concept of yours?
七党联盟同意你们的想法吗？
Bhattarai: We are discussing this with the SPA. Some parties of the SPA have agreed while some are not clear about it. This too will be a major agenda at the Summit talks. It is our firm stand that the restructuring of the state should be done based on the federal governance system.
巴塔拉依：我们正在和七党联盟讨论这个问题。七党联盟中的一些党同意而另一些态度不明朗。这也会是峰会的主要议题之一。我们坚持在联邦体制基础上重建国家。
Q. Some say that you will return to the jungle again if the constituent assembly elections are not as per your expectations?
有人说，如果制宪会议选举不象你们期待的那样，你们会再次回到丛林。
Bhattarai: No way. We will not return to the jungle. In the first place, we don't think that the Nepali people will not support our forward-looking agenda in the constituent assembly elections. We are, in fact, convinced that the people will vote for peace, complete democracy and progressive change, if free and fair constituent assembly elections are held. However, it is our public commitment that we will accept the elections result even if it is not as per our expectation. Then we will continue peaceful struggle until we can achieve the progressive change we want.
巴塔拉依：不可能。我们不会回到丛林。首先，我们不认为尼泊尔人民不会支持我们在制宪会议选举中的远景计划。事实上，我们相信，如果举行自由公平的制宪会议选举，人民会投票支持和平、完全民主和进步转变。然而，我们公开承诺即使结果不是我们期待的，我们也会接受。那么我们会不断进行和平斗争直到我们实现我们想要的进步转变。
Q. Will the interim constitution have a ceremonial or any other form of monarchy?
临时宪法会包括形式上的或其它方式的君主制吗？
Bhattarai: It won't be acceptable to us. We have already said that we should declare Nepal a democratic republic in the preamble of the interim constitution. This is our proposal and is still under discussion.
巴塔拉依：我们不会接受这个。我们已经在临时宪法导言中宣布尼泊尔为民主共和国。这是我们的建议并仍在讨论中。
Q. But isn't it that the major parties of the SPA want to keep a ceremonial or some other form of monarchy?
但是，七党联盟中的主要政党不是想保留形式上的或其它类型的君主制吗？
Bhattarai: Their relevance will end if they do not realize the need of history. In Nepal, monarchy is a regressive force, parliamentary parties or the SPA are status quo-ist forces, and we are a progressive force. Right now, the progressive and status quo-ist forces should unite to defeat the regressive force.
巴塔拉依：如果他们不满足历史的需要，那他们的生命就会终结。在尼泊尔，皇室是反动势力，议会政党或七党联盟是中间平衡力量，我们是进步力量。现在进步和中间平衡力量应该联合起来打败反动势力。
Q. But some people are saying that it will be more democratic to let the people decide the fate of monarchy in the constituent assembly elections. What's your take on this?
问：但是，一些说让人民在制宪会议选举中决定皇室的命运更民主些。您怎么看？
Bhattarai: The constituent assembly will decide on the restructuring of the state by resolving the social, economic and cultural problems. Therefore, the fate of monarchy should be decided before the constituent assembly elections. Our alternative proposal is, let's decide the fate of the monarchy during the constituent assembly elections. Let's give the people a choice between monarchy or a democratic republic through a separate referendum while holding the constituent assembly elections. The referendum will decide the fate of monarchy and the constituent assembly elections the restructuring of the state. We will discuss this proposal also.
巴：制宪会议是通过解决社会、经济和文化问题来决定国家重建。因此，皇室的命运应在制宪会议选举前决定。我们的建议是，让我们在制宪会议选举中决定皇室的命运。让我们通过召开制宪会议选举给人民一个在君主制和民主共和国之间进行公民投票的机会。公民投票将决定皇室的命运，而制宪会议选举决定国家重建。我们还会讨论这个提议。
Posted on: 2006-07-17 04:19:54
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